Any Reason A Newbie Shouldn't Go With An Eddy?

Over in my Climbing An Aluminum Sailboat Mast thread, several SRT and DRT gear recommendations were made. Well, I'm still researching. (I tend to do a lot of researching and asking of questions before pulling the trigger.) Tonight, somewhere, I ran across a reference to the Edelrid Eddy Belay Device.

Near as I can tell, Ron summed it up pretty nicely in The RIG by Petzl!!!! (my additional notes in blue):

	Ron wrote:
	The bottom line is this: The Rig - $150 and it's big The I'D - $225 and it's bigger (Has anti-panic feature) The Eddy - $115 (About the same size as the Gri, but much heavier. Has anti-panic feature) The Grigri - $95 The Cinch - $60 and it's light and tight

I've seen the Eddy for as little as just over $100. Any reason not to go with this instead of the Gri? I like the anti-panic feature, it's not much more expensive than the Gri, I don't care about the weight, it's smaller than either the Rig or the I'D, and less expensive than either, by far.

Jim

I've only tried the Eddy a couple of times but it seemed to work just fine.

I own an I'D that I use mostly for new SRT students, and my brother and my climbing partner Swamp Fox both have several Grigri's; and my brother has a Cinch. I've used all of these many, many times. (I have also used a Stop a few times and liked it, but you didn't ask about it...!)

I'D -- I bought this on a recommendation about six years ago and honestly, I have not been disappointed. It will handle a huge amount of rope smoothly, and it's size acts as an effective heat sink. I like the way it can be loaded while already attached to the harness. The anti-panic feature was nice the first few times I tried it but after a few descents I didn't really need it. The handle sticks out a little too much and can get hung up when rappelling through thick foliage. As stated above, I now use it mostly for new students to prevent them from making a mistake. It takes up a lot of room in my backpack and adds nearly a full pound of weight to the load.

Cinch -- Works great on small-diameter rope but its compact size bothered me in the beginning; it took a little getting used to, particularly on the first descent from above 100 feet or so. It can be a little jerky on the descent and sometimes it feels like you're gonna break the handle because you're pulling on it so hard. It has to be loaded before being attached to the harness, which is a small negative in my book.

Grigri -- Seems to work on ropes a little larger/smaller than recommended, which gives it a fairly wide range. It is reasomably smooth on descent, but can jerk a little on larger diameter ropes or when the rope's wet. Like the Cinch, it has to be loaded before being attached to the harness (makes it too easy to drop by accident). It's reasonably compact and fits most anywhere in my backpack.

If I was purchasing a new one today, I would likely go with the Grigri as my first choice or probably the Eddy as second choice.

My comment on various anti-panic features -- they're nice in the beginning but I never needed it after only a few climbs/descents. The best solution is to buy what YOU want and then GO SLOW, STAY LOW until you've practiced with it enough to be sufficiently satisfied that it'll do what you want every time you use it.

These might be helpful if you haven't already seen them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnTeLAUPtc0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UlGlFUbFY8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FXmVrQKG_M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RBDwyJo3_o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ug7gqnHpk

I bought an Eddy a long time ago. It is my favorite tool for ascent/descent after the Unicender...a long way after though.

Having a compact tool that has an auto/panic lock is the selling point for me. The cost/weight issues are not even considered. Function is what I expect in a tool.

The way that the rope enters/exits the Eddy makes it easier to configure into a variety of systems.

Buy it, I don't think that you'll be disappointed.

_________________
Strong limbs and single ropes~~~

Tom Dunlap

	WildBill wrote:
	(I have also used a Stop a few times and liked it, but you didn't ask about it...!)

I asked about the Petzl Stop in my first thread, but somebody (Ron, I think?) said they slip, and I recalled reading that elsewhere. So I eliminated the Stop early on.

	WildBill wrote:
	I'D -- I bought this on a recommendation about six years ago and honestly, I have not been disappointed.

I like the I'D, but the darn thing is BIG and, more importantly, in my case, very expen$ive--over two times the cost of either the Gri or the Eddy.

	WildBill wrote:
	If I was purchasing a new one today, I would likely go with the Grigri as my first choice or probably the Eddy as second choice.

Noted. Thanks, Bill.

	Ron wrote:
	These might be helpful if you haven't already seen them:

I'd seen them all, except the "Eddy on HTP" one. (IMO: That one, and the 1st one, "Eddy Discussion," show how the Eddy works best.)

Thanks, Ron.

	Tom Dunlap wrote:
	I bought an Eddy a long time ago. It is my favorite tool for ascent/descent after the Unicender...a long way after though.

I suppose, like I could've done with the Stop, I could've added the Unicender to Ron's list, but, like the Stop, the Unicender went off the list early on. It looks like a great tool, but it's way, way too expensive for my budget. In fact: The Unicender, on its own, is over my budget for this project.

	Tom Dunlap wrote:
	Having a compact tool that has an auto/panic lock is the selling point for me.

Yeah. Perhaps I'm being overly-cautious (tho my wife and one close friend both think I'm being overly "adventurous" Razz

), but I like that panic feature.

	Tom Dunlap wrote:
	The cost/weight issues are not even considered.

I have to consider the cost aspect, which leads me to...

	Tom Dunlap wrote:
	Buy it, I don't think that you'll be disappointed.

I'd like to, and I may still do so. OTOH: There's a guy that may be willing to sell me an only slightly used Gri for $50. So...

Thanks for your comments, Tom.

Here's something I'm idly wondering about. It's not like it's likely to matter to me, being as I don't plan on rappelling down my mast, or anything else, for that matter, at this kind of speed: But the Eddy being the size of the Gri, but much heavier, I'd think it would be slower to heat up than the Gri. Anybody ever noticed, one way or the other?

Jim

The heat dissipation is of minimal concern for the length rappel you are looking at - just don't go too fast.

I know there's some big Eddy proponents here, but for the record my personal preference, in my climbing, is the grigri.

Don't over think it, all of these solutions will work, the biggest factor will be practice and familiarity with the system.

_________________
Find a tree, climb the tree, leave it as you found it.

Last edited by Oak on Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

	Oak wrote:
	The heat dissipation is of minimal concern for the length rappel you are looking at - just don't go to fast.

Very well

	Oak wrote:
	I know there's some big Eddy proponents here, but for the record my personal preference, in my climbing, is the grigri.

Noted. Thanks!

	Oak wrote:
	Don't over think it, all of these solutions will work, the biggest factor will be practice and familiarity with the system.

Well, I can't help but over-think things, because... well... because that's what I do Smile

. But I will make certain I'm familiarized with my gear and I will practice "low and slow" to start.

Thanks,
Jim

SEMIJim wrote:

	Oak wrote:
	Don't over think it, all of these solutions will work, the biggest factor will be practice and familiarity with the system.

Well, I can't help but over-think things, because... well... because that's what I do Smile

. But I will make certain I'm familiarized with my gear and I will practice "low and slow" to start.

Thanks,
Jim

Yup, just a recommendation from someone who overthinks things as well.

_________________
Find a tree, climb the tree, leave it as you found it.

Well, I'm not seeing an overwhelming favourite here, one way or the other, so if me and the guy with the "in fairly new shape" Gri can work something out, I guess I'll save myself $50 and go with that.

Tho I have to say: The Gear Lust is strong in me, so this is taking quite some exertion of willpower Very Happy

Then again: The Gri is pretty much the benchmark against which all like devices are compared, so how can I not have one? Yeah, that's the ticket! Razz

Jim

	SEMIJim wrote:
	....Then again: The Gri is pretty much the benchmark against which all like devices are compared, so how can I not have one? Yeah, that's the ticket! Jim

No Panic Feature. That can be pretty important starting out. When I was just starting out I dumped myself on my butt from about 10 feet pretty hard using a friction hitch. It is an easy mistake to make. Panic feature is a good thing.

I like my I'd, but Tom's recomendation of the Eddy is very solid advice.

	Fireax wrote:
	No Panic Feature. That can be pretty important starting out. When I was just starting out I dumped myself on my butt from about 10 feet pretty hard using a friction hitch. It is an easy mistake to make. Panic feature is a good thing. I like my I'd, but Tom's recomendation of the Eddy is very solid advice.

I'm back to leaning that way. Street price is only about $10 more than the Gri's street price and I do like the anti-panic feature. The $50 Gri looks like it may not happen. The guy doesn't seem all that anxious to sell it. Haven't heard further from him in a week.

I may have to put this whole thing off for a bit. Other expenses came up. Plus I think I want to save up a bit more and get a Misty Mountain Titan with D-rings on the waist for clipping on a loop to go around the mast. So now I'm up to $180 for the harness.

Jim

	Quote:
	I want to save up a bit more and get a Misty Mountain Titan with D-rings on the waist for clipping on a loop to go around the mast. So now I'm up to $180 for the harness.

If you already going to expend that much on a saddle may as well go for the Basic New Tribe Saddle a lot more comfortable for seating while you do the work on the mast. Blazing Saddle $127.00 and you can order it with metal or soft Dee side rings for a small extra amount. Since seating is mostly what you will do leg support is very critical to keep blood circulation to the legs. ( Kind of Critical! Embarassed

)

We made some Blazing Saddles for you--Save $32!

This is a special color edition of our New Tribe Basic Saddle. The supply is limited, so if you want the savings and love the color, get yours before they disappear! For a complete product description, please see Basic New Tribe Saddle.

http://www.newtribe.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=47&products_id=137&osCsid=966a8a4e532bf61e3633981fad67c668

_________________
Oldtimer

	Oldtimer wrote:
	If you already going to expend that much on a saddle may as well go for the Basic New Tribe Saddle a lot more comfortable for seating while you do the work on the mast. Blazing Saddle $127.00 and you can order it with metal or soft Dee side rings for a small extra amount.

Well, no, you can't. To get side D-rings, you have to go up to the next level, which is $190. (Just got off the phone with New Tribe.)

	Oldtimer wrote:
	Since seating is mostly what you will do leg support is very critical to keep blood circulation to the legs. ( Kind of Critical! )

Understood. It would be nice to have a saddle I can really hang in comfortably, rather than a harness that is maybe not so comfortable to hang in.

	Oldtimer wrote:
	We made some Blazing Saddles for you--Save $32!

Holy smokes the thing is red! And it's on sale! And it looks really comfy! And it's red! Razz

(Our boat's trim colour is red Very Happy

.)

It has no side D-rings, tho. But that isn't a show-stopper.

I'm thinkin' that may be the way to go for me.

Thanks, OT!

Jim

NT Blazing Saddle and a $50 Grigri looks very good to me.

The panic feature on a descender has me perplexed. Whenever a climber uses a device like a Grigri, Eddy, Rig, I'D etc. there's a standard and basic procedure to be followed: One hand on the tail of the rope below the device, the other hand on the release handle. If you pull the release handle wide open and grip the rope tight with the belay hand you're not going anywhere. In other words belay hand and release hand work together to balance load and control descent comfortably. The anti-panic feature is excellent for facilitators putting non-climbers on rope for the first time, it provides backup against uncontrolled descent. For individual climbers either beginners or experienced using these devices for the first time uncontrolled descent shouldn't even be a question, you follow the fundamental operating procedure, learn it low and slow, you're good to go.

I believe the anti-panic feature is intended to meet requirements for industrial work climbing. High angle industrial gear specs and guidelines make sense in the daily work context. However they are often redundant and not practical for individual rec climbers. Take for example the work requirement in Europe (I think that's so, did not look this up) that all SRT settings have a second rope as back-up. I do not know a single rec tree climber who uses two ropes climbing SRT. If I followed that protocol I would have to hire a Sherpa to help me carry gear into the woods. I see the panic stop feature as a similar redundancy not practical or needed for an individual rec climber. Ok, I'm getting off the soap box.
-moss

	moss wrote:
	NT Blazing Saddle and a $50 Grigri looks very good to me.

Unfortunately, it looks like neither is going to work out for me. The guy with the $50 Gri: I haven't heard from in over a week. He didn't sound like he was interested in going thru the hassle of selling it. And the saddle... well, the saddle suffers the same problem I found with most rock harnesses: For my waist size, the legs would be too big. I need a "large" saddle with "medium" legs, and

	Quote:
	This special saddle will work for you if your measurements call for the SAME size for both Belt and Legstrap. Sizes can NOT be mixed.

you can't get the NT Basic Blazing Saddle that way.

That's why I'd settled on Misty Mountain rock harness: Mixing and matching waist sizes and leg sizes are no problem for them. Same with Yates rock climbing harnesses. In fact: NT's regular Basic can be mixed and matched, but not the Blazing Saddle. Too bad.

	moss wrote:
	The panic feature on a descender has me perplexed. Whenever a climber uses a device like a Grigri, Eddy, Rig, I'D etc. there's a standard and basic procedure to be followed: One hand on the tail of the rope below the device, the other hand on the release handle.

Can't disagree with that. And I'm certainly not going argue the point, being as you have lots of experience and I have zero. But still I find myself attracted to the anti-panic feature.

Jim