I alluded to this technique in my thread about the safe way to manipulate a throwbag and said I'd make a video of it. So here it is. This is how I install a rope sleeve before I install the rope. The theory being that installing the rope sleeve with the throwline before installing the rope, doesn't damage the tree as much as pulling up the rope with the throwline. Not really very spectacular, but then not many things are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIoxMN8umTw

I like that technique, Ron, and may have to borrow it, especially on some of the trees that I climb that have fragile bark.

Even with the conduit sleeves, the amount of weight carried by the throwline, using your method, would never approach that of the rope. Maybe not even as much weight as the throw weight originally used to set the line!

Nice idea Ron. If you are so worried about friction on the limb have you considered using a rope sleeve for your ground anchor SRT climbs too?

Actually, Ben, I think some of us DO use a rope sleeve on a ground-anchor set up. I know some of the trees I climb, especially Bigleaf maples, have bark that is thin enough that the slight movement of the rope over the limb during an SRT climb causes significant damage. This movement can be caused by a climber weighting and unweighting the rope, rope stretch, limb flexion, whatever. You can get a lot of movement if your rope is anchored to a neighbouring tree and the trees are moving in the wind!

I second the motion (pun intended) -- the repetitive 'sawing' movement during SRT can be hard on a thin-bark limb AND hard on a small segment of rope over rough bark -- a sleeve is a good solution.

I often use 1" webbing for the ground anchor, and kinda alternate between the webbing and ArborPlex in a cow's hitch for the ground anchor. With the webbing, I use a 'long' two wrap, but pull only on one wrap. I position the webbing so it makes a large, long 'X' on the opposite side of the tree that I attach my rope to. This distributes the pressure of the webbing over a very large portion of the tree.

When I use the ArborPlex, it's because I anticipate getting slack in the rope if I need to advance the rope. The cow's hitch is doubled rope and minimizes pressure on the tree as well, but stays securely in place even when the rope goes slack.

There is a local place, The Nature Center, where guys climb rocks and use trees as their top anchor to rappel. Tree protection is required.

Sorry Ron, just to clarify it was intended as a joke! I can understand where you are coming from though.

I personally do not spend much time climbing very thin barked trees (except poplars, when it is mostly removals) I also think that unless you are regularly climbing a tree for fun, a bit of friction over one or two limbs on the way to the final anchor point is not really a problem (except on extremely thin barked trees).

I do however, use a ring to ring type cambium saver, more to reduce friction to make climbing easier and to keep rope wear down. Just my two cents.

I can understand how, in your situation you would want to use a ropesaver as you seem to regularly climb the same trees. I also think that throwline is unlikely to cause any damage at all on the tree species you are climbing.

Just to add.. in terms of ground anchor SRT, I only use it for access and then exiting the tree. So it would be unloaded once and then reloaded once during my whole climb. Just differences in climbing style I guess.

No problem at all - I thought you made a good point, esp. for those of us that climb the same trees a lot.


Joe noticed that a throwline had cut into one of his pine trees that he climbs a lot. I may climb the same tree(s) (pine) three times a week for a couple of weeks just playing with different things. Over time, the grinding of a small diameter throwline with the weight of my rope on it, is gonna have some negative effects - just like Joe discovered.

I don't always use a ground tie. I do if I'm doing a ground-to-top-of-the-tree, but I like to do pitches too. When I do pitches, I cinch a limb and don't/can't use a rope sleeve. However on pitches, the weight of the rope, because of the significantly shorter pitch distances, does not place as much force on the throwline and tree.

And of late, I've been experimenting with a ground tie system that is recoverable after I've entered the tree - video coming of course.

Ron---One method for the ground-level-tie-off and in-tree rope retrieval can be found in one of the articles on the "Articles" page under SRT tie-offs. Look here: Ground level tie-off and retrieval

Interesting info Ron. I will keep that in mind. It is surprising how much damage a little bit of string can cause. Have you experimented with the slicker throwlines like zing it? Perhaps being more slippery they will do less damage? Sounds like I need to have myself a little experiment

I used 1.75mm ZingIt and then went to 2.2mm ZingIt, and for a while used SlickLine because it was so much larger in diameter than 2.2mm ZingIt and theoretically less damaging. I've kinda come back to the 2.2mm ZingIt, but I'm about to go back to the SlickLine.

It'd probably take a long term experiment to see results unless of course one used a lot of weight as an accelerated test and then I'm afraid one would lose the connection back to the ligher, actual loads over a long time period. Although, if you've ever had a situation where a throwline/bag was dragging back through the tree and you were really having to pull on it, that's probably gonna produce more damage, so I try to avoid that by not pulling the bag back through the tree, but I can't say that it really 'saves' anything.

Thanks - I've seen it; all the retrievables are gonna be pretty similar. There aren't too many ways to do it, just some variations on the same concept/theme.