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 Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing technique) 
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Post Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing technique)
PLEASE READ ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE TRYING THIS TECHNIQUE (it was mostly experimental and I ran into issues after several climbs)


I've been working on retrieveable cinched TIPS lately and have found the monkey tail to be a nice alternative to cinching knots. Because it uses ring on rope instead of rope on rope to cinch, there is less friction making the pull down that much smoother. Just have to make sure the pull down leg of the climbing line reaches the point you want to pull down from.


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Last edited by quabinclimber on Fri May 06, 2011 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:36 am
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS
cinched


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Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:40 am
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS
another angle


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Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:40 am
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS
the pull down...


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Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:42 am
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
I wonder if it is any more dificult to thread the rope coming down thru that smaller ring compared to using a Delta? Also, since you can not open the ring you will either have to have a short piece of throwline line or bring the entire contraction down to you before you pull it all the way back up to the TIP.
Hey, whatever works for every climber is fine with me! :roll:

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Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
Contraction? I don't really know exactly what you are saying Desi... but it appears to me that one could simply pull down on the non-working end of the climbing line to retrieve. My only concern would be the possibility of the prussic being "broken" by pressing against the limb, and the weight of the climber. Is that a real possibility? I dunno

hook


Sun May 01, 2011 8:09 am
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
drainhook wrote:
Contraction? I don't really know exactly what you are saying Desi... but it appears to me that one could simply pull down on the non-working end of the climbing line to retrieve. My only concern would be the possibility of the prussic being "broken" by pressing against the limb, and the weight of the climber. Is that a real possibility? I dunno

hook


Contraction = Contraption ... Whasamatta you ... no speaka 'Desi'? :D

Sorry Desi ... just funnin' Image jajaja

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Sun May 01, 2011 11:28 am
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
Oldtimer wrote:
I wonder if it is any more dificult to thread the rope coming down thru that smaller ring compared to using a Delta? Also, since you can not open the ring you will either have to have a short piece of throwline line or bring the entire contraction down to you before you pull it all the way back up to the TIP.
Hey, whatever works for every climber is fine with me! :roll:



I'm not sure I really follow you, why am I pulling it down before pulling it back up? And the whole purpose of this system is that I don't need a throw line to retrieve it. The whole thing is retrieved with the line itseld. A delta may be a nice replacement instead of the ring (I just used what I had lying around) but remember the other end is tied on with a Blakes which means it can be installed or disconnected mid line.


Mon May 02, 2011 5:44 am
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
I think what Oldtimer meant is that you can't put a ring on midline. But with a delta you can just use an alpine butterfly and a delta onto the other leg. Doesn't make any difference if you are setting it from the ground. A Steel delta has a bit more solid grunt than an Ali ring too. But hey, it does the job. That is all that matters i suppose. 8)


Mon May 02, 2011 3:15 pm
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
Thanks for clearing that up Ben and for the alpine butterfly idea. The beauty of the monkey tail over a alpine butterfly is that it can be adjusted via the blakes hitch once tied. The beauty of the alpine butterfly is; you need no extra gear to make this system work. I agree the Delta link would be a better choice over the small steel ring. (again, I used what I had lying around)


Tue May 03, 2011 8:13 am
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
Have you tried this outside yet? I have this picture of what might happen sometime: the branch "tending the knot" so that the friction hitch slides on the rope when you put weight on the thing. Probably a matter of setting it right, and maybe it never happens, but I'd want to play around with it low to the ground (and on a few different branches and settings) before trying it out high in the canopy.

Another advantage of the alpine butterfly arrangement is that it could never ever do that.


Tue May 03, 2011 2:14 pm
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
Quote:
Contraction = Contraption
Hey Spelling is not my forte.

ie; the red rope with the little round ring at the end is the "contraption" that I was trying to refer to in my post.

Quote:
By MarkF: the branch "tending the knot" so that the friction hitch slides on the rope when you put weight on the thing.


I have the same question that when the red knot rope hits the TIP branch it may release the friction and the climbing rope on the other side starts to slide down with the weight of the climber? Is that posible?

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Tue May 03, 2011 3:39 pm
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
If you are worried about it 'tending' the hitch down, Tie it with extra wraps? Or you could just use a stopper knot underneath.. In which case you might just want to use the alpine butterfly.. I may have a go at this idea though. Looks useful for certain situations..


Tue May 03, 2011 4:08 pm
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
I have tried this is a tree and it has worked out nicely.

Oldtimer: I suppose it would be possible for the friction hitch part of the system to hit a branch and slide however, it would be something you would notice as soon as you put your weight on the rope. Also, if you tie a stopper knot in the end of your line it would not pull through the frition hitch. If this senerio were to happen while you were aloft, you would get a slow ride down until the stopper knot hit the frition hitch.


Wed May 04, 2011 6:30 am
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Post Re: Monkey Tail for Cinching TIPS (meant for climbing techni
I actually received a request for a comment :shock: ... so, FWIW:

TreeStuff wrote:
The Monkey Tail Spar Descent system {TreeStuff link} is a retrievable climbing device originally conceived by Odis Sisk {NATS link} for working a spar. The Monkey Tail is incorporated into a standard dynamic system. When utilized it creates a choking static system on a spar.
Image


Here's an old picture posted by Odis several years ago:
Image

Now then ... it is my understanding that the "Monkey Tail System" was designed to 'work' down a spar and to be cinched (by hand) around the spar while at the TIP. That implies - the Monkey Tail is not to be set remotely. Further, most 'hitch-adjustable' cinch systems are not intended to be set remotely. I agree with Desi and others ... there is a non-trivial risk when a Monkey Tail System is set remotely. However, it can be set-up to be remotely retrievable.

Even though the Monkey Tail is designed for cinching a spar, it might be ok for cinching a limb. BUT, I would not trust a life support knot like the Blakes when set remotely. It needs to be tied, dressed & set by hand. I believe there is a very real possibility that the Blakes could become UN-SET (slip, tumble, fail) when cinched remotely. Sure, as suggested, back-ups & stoppers are always good practice to mitigate failures, but it is poor practice to use 'safeties' to compensate for a mis-applied system.

When the Monkey Tail is set as shown in Odis' pictures, at the TIP with the end of the life-line at hand, Desi's concern about yarding a lot of rope through the ring becomes moot. Also, please notice, Odis' stopper 8 after the Blakes - good form.

... just some personal opinions ...

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Thu May 05, 2011 9:56 am
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