The knot is quite simple; it's quite secure when tied properly, and when it's not tied properly it's no longer a Buntline hitch is it? So why abandon this simple, secure, very compact, easy to untie knot? It's hard to tie.

It's hard to tie and I say that as a knot guy. I love knots; I've used the Buntline almost exclusively in any tie-in situation. I've used it for all kinds of cordage applications. So why the sudden change? Because as simple as it is, it is also very, very easy to tie incorrectly, and that is the problem, not the knot per se. There are too many ways the wraps and tucks can be tied incorrectly.

Lately, on numerous occassions, to my surprise, I have found myself examining my newly tied Buntline only to realize I've tied it incorrectly. I can literally tie this knot blindfolded, but sometimes when you have to tie a knot in an unusual orientation, what is easy, isn't so easy any more. Plus I also notice that if I have to go for about a month without climbing, my knot tying skills degrade more for the Buntline than with other knots.

For me, I have to be able to tie a knot, without thinking, the first time, every time. Well, that's the goal; I can't say I can do that with any given knot 100%, but that's where I want to be and I'm far from that with the Buntline after much, much use of the knot. So now what knot?

For a cinching knot in pliable rope, I pretty much use an anchor hitch, and it too can be problematic to tie, but to a lesser degree than the Buntline. As of late, I've pretty much gone with the disgusting scaffold knot. In stiffer ropes, I use a figure 8 on a bight; it doesn't cinch, but it is secure and very easy to tie correctly.

Some of this goes to the "can you tie it in pitch black, in the rain, under the stress of an emergency?" Well, rarely would a rec climber face such daunting circumstances, but the concept is for knots our life depends on, we have to be able to efficiently, quickly, and correctly tie them, in an instant, on demand, the first time, every time - even if the bees are attacking us.

It's my go-to cinching attachment to a carabiner what's disgusting about it? (I'm rising to the bait like a fat native brookie)
-AJ

LOL - no bait moss, just a tool for further discussion I guess. It's mostly just me but a scaffold hitch is a slip knot with an extra turn. It gets a kind of separated look when loaded, especially on 'D' type biners and delta screw-links, and it can be ornery to adjust and hard to untie if you can't slip it off an object. And I can never decide if it should be a two wrap or a three wrap .

But it is rugged, secure, strong, reliable, and easy to tie. Even so, I'm a wee bit leary of it in stiff rope, i.e. PMI 10mm EzBend or 11mm Pit rope. 'Course I don't use Pit rope much, and now that I've found the 9mm PMI will hold a Blake's hitch, I don't use the 10mm any more so that issue pretty much becomes a non-issue.

I guess a well dressed figure 8 on a bight has an elegance about it, while the Scaffold kinda has a well... OTOH a F8 on a bight won't cinch.

Allow me to jump in here with an observation I read recently ... without testifying about it's creditability or credibility.


FWIW, it seems to be an interesting concept. I'm not willing to argue either way. I like both - just something to consider.

There you go again, it's the importance of aesthetics in tree climbing!

I always use a double on the Scaffold, with 6mm tech cord the triple is advised (core is extra slippery). With regular arb rope the double is quite sufficient, with a healthy amount of tail. I suspect the amount of force required to slip the core on a static kernmantle through the knot would result in total body failure before you hit the ground anyway.

I guess I'm used to the Scaffold, it can be worked off a closed ring with patience, 'though I primarily tie on to a carabiner.
-AJ

Moss, ya gotta look good or what's the point?

Jack,
I can't speak for the 2 or 3 scaffold hitch, but the book "ON ROPE" says a three wrap fisherman's bend is nearly as strong as the rope.

Ron- I agree with you completely . In fact sometimes I think of you in that outtakes video you did, when I get flustered on that knot myself. I use it almost exclusively in rigging tie off's. Sometimes I get turned around and wrap the wrong way and have to look at it for a min to figure it out Everything else gets a scaffold knot.

Dan

I use the Scaffold hitch for almost all my termination knots. Two wrap on most things, three wraps if using "tech" fibers (aramids, HDPE, etc.). I have occasionally used a triple on stiff, small diameter ropes (Mammut 9mm) due to how it can "open up" as it gets sucked down onto my pointy ended micro carabiners.

The only place I use the buntline is on my unweighted ascender attachment for SRT (that is, on the ascender with yoyo, or the lower ascender with a texas system). This attachment uses a piece of 8mm dynamic line, which locks down like hell if I do something wrong. I like to untie it from my delta mid-climb to clean up harness clutter. (I usually make the other tether with the tail end of my SRT line, and attach it to my harness with my split tail).

Someday I'm going to learn to tie the Buntline backwards.

LOL - yeah, that vid you referred to is interesting. The knot was actually a bowline, instead of the Buntline, and the 're-takes' were mostly getting the tail the right length for the Yosemite finish without having to adjust it (video pride of tying a knot perfectly the first time with perfect tail length), or suddenly remembering I hadn't been aware of where my helmet cam was indexed.

The exasperating thing about that is I can tie a bowline blindfolded behind my back the first try every try. Adding the Yosemite finish seemed to be a real challenge that day for some reason.

A few years back, there was an old fart in FL teaching climbing (no one in our community). He posted his "Buntline" on the web as a show of credentials. It was wrong. I contacted him. He never changed it. Hence I speak of him in a derogatory manner.

To Ron's point, the Buntline can be tied incorrectly. I make and post knot illustrations as a means of deepening my knot tying skill. I tie all of my knots with greater attention today than what I did 5 years ago. Thus I see value in assessing a knot from the perspective of making it with reliability. I'm fanatical about my choosing my methods of tying a knot. For example, I use a specific hand wrap on tying the Blakes Hitch. I don't rely upon a single two-dimensional illustration out of a single source book to form the basis of my knot knowledge. I use hours of practice to develop that hand-muscle-knowledge relationship, and I dialog with peers on it.

My biggest concern with the Buntline is that it has to be loaded heavily to hold its shape. Short of that effort to dress it properly, it readily loosens. Ron's concern ranks second with me. However, this gives voice to two significant concerns.

Years ago, I used the anchor hitch, because it was in the literature. It was a smooth knot to tie. The more I tested and observed it, the more it showed weakness. I've discounted that as a reliable termination knot.

My path forward is to tie the Scaffold for the rest of the season and assess at the end of the year.