I have a tall maple in my back yard that has great crotches about 35 feet up. Above that there are a couple good TIP's 20 feet further up. Problem is, there is too much foliage in that way to get a throw line up there easily.

I tried to use two chokers to try to inch my way up but that was a lot of work. Also, night was falling and then the rain began, then the lightning. I bailed out of the tree and called it a night.

How do I advance up the trunk when there is nothing to tie on to?

I use a rope cinched and a lanyard cinched. Or rope cinched and a webbing sling to step in and just use my lanyard as normal while I advance the cinched rope.

Have you tried putting a throwbag on the end of your rope and flinging that.. I find it crashed through the twiggy stuff better than throwline and have more weight to it.

I've had that problem myself, here's a good way to deal with that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YBf4XBbXrE

First rate trick to add to the ol' took kit, Ron. True about taking care when tying the bowline in such a way. Though I have read that the so-called 'Eskimo Bowline' is not a trivial knot.

Anyway, great tip!!!

Thanks Jack! But, I tied a regular bowline, not the Eskimo (which I had to look up BTW, I'd never seen that before! So thanks for that too).

I cannot emphasize enough how, let's say disorienting, it is to tie the bowline for this application. It looked easy enough in the vid, because I edited out my checks and re-checks. It would be easy to get it tied incorrectly.

If you can use alternating chokers to just get you high enough to stand on the 35 ft. crotch you might have a decent enough throwing position. Once you have a good position with solid footing with your choked trunk TIPs also supporting you try doing a backflip throw with your in-tree throwing kit. This is a pretty standard and effective way to throw to a branch above you. Let the bag hang roughly 3 ft. below your hand, swing it back and forth and flip it up with a back swing, you'll be able to hit 15' above you with a little practice and throw much higher with more practice.
-AJ

Thanks Moss,

I will give that a try with the throw line. I was wondering how to get a better throw in the tree. As soon as this rain stops, I will give that a try. I will also try the two chokers like I saw in one of Rons videos and give the foot loop choker a try.

I think my problem is just a matter of getting comfortable with manuevering in the tree when I am 40 to 50 feet up off the ground. I still feel uncomfortable untying from my harness after recrotching, even with my lanyard attached. I added another short work positioning lanyard for my side D's. That has made quite a difference with my confidence in detaching my main climbing rope to recrotch.

Can someone confirm that I am calculating the safety ratio correctly?

Tachyon 6800 lbs. MBS
My weight 220 lbs.

6800/220=30.9

30.9:1 safety ratio. Is this correct and if so, why am I worried about the rope breaking?

You are doing that calculation correctly, but remember that as soon as you knot your rope its MBS is significantly reduced (with some knots, almost by half), and, it doesn't take a very long fall to double or triple your effective weight (dynamic loading). Still, you have little to fear if you are using life-safety rated gear in good shape. It's much more likely that a limb would fail than your gear.

That being said, there can still be trust issues! After many years of climbing I have become quite comfortable trusting my life to ropes and aluminum gadgets, BUT, my trust decreases with height, which is totally irrational!

Just a clarification. The method in the vid I linked is not a choker. It's a long fixed loop.


You bring back fond memories to me. I can remember when I thought 25' was as high as I could ever stand.

When I climb, I have a personal rule to always be tied in twice and if possible/practical on two different TIPs. I do make exceptions sometimes, but I try not to. It's not a fear thing it's just a backup thing - kind of if one tie in fails where would I be. It does take longer to climb, but that's not a problem for me. Falling is pretty final.


Dietley already hit this and I concur 100% with what he said.

Safety margins are somewhat mythical. E.g the rope is the least of our worries, well assuming a life support rated rope is being used. Handled ascenders are rated at about 1000 lbs before they start to slip and shred the rope cover. So if you weigh 220 and the ascender fails at 1000 lbs, the safety margin is about 4.5 to 1 - hardly the ten and fifteen to one we hear about as desireable.

Another concern, although very rare, is TIP failure. We have no way to really know how secure or what safety margin we have there. Classically 'we' do 200% loading or bounce testing. All that proves is that the TIP will hold twice your weight. We have no idea what the bounce means.

Scared yet? Don't be. Comfort yourself knowing that people just as heavy as you have been climbing for years and years without problems. If you're climbing on a good rope and gear in good condition, safety margin is a non-issue. They tend to become significant in rigging and rescue work where heaiver loads and rope geometry is involved, like a highline etc. and even in a highline the actual safety margin isn't calculated. They depend on known, assessed methods instead.

I climb on PMI 9mm EzBend a lot; one of my favorite ropes. It's only rated for 4350 lbs and I weigh, or I should say weighed, 205 lbs rigged out. But even if a knot halves the strength of the rope to 2175 lbs, rope-wise I still have a 10.6 : 1 margin.

The double choker technique I got from a different video of yours Ron. I forgot the name of the video but you are using two chokers to advance up a small diameter tree.

Your videos are great tools Ron

Ahhh, I know what your talking about now!


Well, in that case thanks! I hope they are. They're pretty much things I've learned over the years.

I've go a slick trick video in the works, but I'm not making any more videos until I've lost about 15 lbs. In the last vid I made (didn't post) I looked like a stuffed tick climbing a string. Too much convenience and stress eating while not getting to climb happening at the same time. I've lost 4.5 lbs in just over two weeks. So in about another month, I should be video ready. Maybe sooner if I start getting to climb regularly.

BTW, that double choker video you mentioned, I'll be using that very technique next weekend to reach an isolated limb on a tree that had a good sized limb broken in our storm(s) last week. That's the only way I can see to reach it.

BKS, Ron;

Is that video still up? Do you have a link?

Jack,

Here is the link.

It is a slow technique but, sometimes its is the only way to make progress.

I am having the same issue with my Maple. I cant get to the next TIP so, this technique may help me get to the next crotch. It may allow me to advance just enough to get a good angle to use my throwline to get to the next crotch. Regardless, its a good technique to have in your arsenal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgm1maKG ... re=related

Thanks for the link, BKS -- now I remember. It is slow but sometimes "ya-do-what-ya-gotta-do." I think Moss might have been referring to using alternating foot-loop chokers. He did a video of it a while back. But alas, it's gone now. It, too, was slow but again, "ya-do-what-ya-gotta-do."

Here's a link you may find useful Third Rope Technique. I'm not sure it will solve your exact problem but it's good to know.


I like the lanyard approach and use a double-ended-double-adjust lanyard. In the crowded canopies like you describe: I just lanyard in -- detach my TIP -- alternate lanyard my way up -- use the limbs as a ladder -- set the new TIP when I reach it.

I'm not sure any of that was helpful but it's all I got ...

Jack,



Everything on this site seem to be helpful, your input included. I seem to be addicted to this tree climbing thing at the present time. If the info isn't new to me, I still like to review it. I am still a fairly new climber (2 years DRT).

Thanks to you and all the contributors here.

BKS