So - I finally took the plunge. I've been eyeing these closed hitches for a while but have been happy with my Blakes and wondered what all the fuss was about. I decided I really wanted to try the XT and since I had some beeline and a micro pulley I figured I'd give it a try. Wed. we had rain all day so I had some extra time available at work to "play." I took my work rope (blue streak), beeline, pulley, Tengu, and a couple of Moss's pics out to the equipment shed and got my line over a rafter. I'd tied the knot a bunch of times in my office messing around with the length of the beeline and thought I had it pretty good. Anyway, I hooked myself up and managed to get off the ground a little, but I could not get that knot to work right! I messed with it - tried more wraps, less wraps, more braids, less braids. It wouldn't really advance on its own and I had to set it each time to get it to hold and sometimes it still wouldn't hold at all and would slide right down. I'm like, "why do people like this thing?!" I spent waaay more time on it than I should have (since I was supposed to be working ).

That night I went back home, got online figuring I'd done something wrong and lo an behold BLOND MOMENT!! I'd been tying the VT and not the XT. I got a new set of Moss pics (the XT this time - I sort of didn't really read the whole thread the first time I printed out pics) and spent some time yesterday climbing on the XT (I was pruning so was technically "working" and not just slacking off). This worked MUCH better! It was kind of hard getting off the ground- I just use the single foot wrap - but once I got going it was nice. I did have to set the hitch when I sat back unless I wanted to lose a little ground - is this normal? I started out with hitch attached to the leg strap loop and then later moved it to the pear to see how that felt. Not sure which I like better. I can't body thrust at all really with the attachment at the leg loop and I do a lot of that when I'm moving around pruning. I love how this thing works on limb walks (mine are very short at this point ) Descending was also very nice -very smooth and easy to stop.

When I rec climb I use PI rope and I attach a rack below my Blakes to come down - it's fun and I figure it saves my rope a little. Can you do this with the XT? I haven't tried climbing on it yet with my rec setup and my Basic saddle. Hopefully this weekend.

-Leslie

I use the same setup with Tachyon and 8mm Beeline. I think you will find that the system has some benefits over the Blakes. Self tending capabilities, one handed slack tending and you can configure your setup many different ways depending what your doing. I use a Pantin on my right foot and a handled ascender with footloop in a DLRW system. Its very efficient and easy to climb. I can even add a pulley to the handled ascender and get a 4:1 mechanical advantage if ever I need to.

Its a very versatile rig that you can customize to suit your needs. As with any change to your system there is going to be a learning curve to get use to the ergonomics of a new setup.

Its just my two cents but, after I got use to the XT hitch, I cant go back to the Blakes for my primary climbing system. The Blakes hitch is not as efficient IMHO.

I do still love the simplicity of the Blakes hitch and use it occasionally when I want a good workout.

Now, all that being said, I will defer to Moss as he is the resident expert on the XT. My setup was based entirely on what I learned by watching his videos and reading his posts.

He is the man. IMO

BKS

Ok easy does it, you're going to get our resident leaders at Galactic HQ PO'd. I am not the man. Ok moving right along...

Leslie! What you experienced with a closed hitch once you got the XT working is exactly what I experienced. What is all the fuss about? What a pain to get off the ground! I immediately abandoned it and climbed a Blake's for another 6 months.

It's a such a different climbing technique than the Blake's, has a whole different approach. Here are a couple of things I found out later when I got more patient, some of this you discovered...

1. It excels once you're in the crown, fingertip sensitivity to release the hitch and release smoothly, awesome for coming back in from a limb walk, you can tend slack with one hand as needed, self-tailing ascending in the crown when you have enough rope weight below you.

2. Ok, here comes heresy: body thrust is invalid and a waste of energy with a closed hitch, at least the way you think of it with a Blake's. I never body thrust from the ground with a closed hitch. You can but it's sketchy, you pull rope above the hitch, hold your weight with one arm and pull the slack through from below the hitch with your other hand. Fine for big strong daily work climbers, not the way I climb, probably not the way you want to climb.

3. Sorry to say there would have to eventually be a gear purchase in your future to make a closed hitch really effective and versatile getting off the ground. Enter the Pantin (foot ascender). There is no more body thrust needed to climb up on the trunk. One foot on the trunk, one foot on the tail with your Pantin foot. You just pull rope with both arms above the hitch, the Pantin gives you leg power and pulls the rope down through the hitch at the same time. You can use the single footlock to do this, I did this for at least a year before finally giving in and picking up a Pantin. Like any other technique one foot locking takes practice to get smooth and functional, but it does become smooth and very functional.

4. Closed hitch "sit back" is a myth and/or technical misconception. You don't sit back on a closed hitch during the climb cycle, the hitch just rides the rope as you ascend. When you want to stop climbing push the hitch up a couple of inches and sit back, you will lose zero progress. Sitting back per push is a Blake's climbing technique and makes sense for the Blake's but not for a closed hitch.

5. Branch route. Ok the rope is hanging away from the trunk, how do you get off the ground with a closed hitch? Same as climbing a trunk route as described in #2 except you can either footlock the tail with both feet (takes practice, tougher to get a good lock than locking doubled rope the old-school way), footlock the tail with a Pantin or single foot lock, or if you're using a Pantin do a single footlock below the Pantin with your other foot, now you can use both feet side-by-side for max power. Climb as fast as you want until your heart says enough. Or climb slow and enjoy the ascent.

6. You don't need to use a rack or other rappel device below an XT hitch on rappel. As you know the cord you're using is heat resistant and if you go at a reasonable speed (faster than you can safely go on a Blake's) it's very smooth. Sometimes I will loosen the hitch coils a little to smooth the descent. You can do the same with a Blake's to improve descent performance. All hitches progressively tighten over the course of a climb so making adjustments before descent is normal.

These are my observations based on what I've discovered as my technique evolved over several years. It works great for me. Mileage varies for every climber. Many climbers have climbed Blake's for 30+ years and have no intent to change and have no need or reason to. What works best for each individual climber is what's best.
-AJ

yes


for short body thrust moves in the crown pull rope above the hitch, hold with one arm and pull the slack though below the hitch with the other, as I mentioned not great for getting offthe ground but very good for a couple of pulls to get somewhere in the crown. If I want to move a bit more distance in the crown I just revert to single footlock or Pantin on the tail, one foot on the trunk as mentioned earlier.



You can put your rack on a short sling tether and place it on the rope above your hitch. Your right hand is on the tail of the rope pulling the hitch down and belaying the rack at the same time. Since the rack is taking majority of the friction, your hitch is very light on the rope and is just there as a back up to catch you if you accidentally let go of the rope.
-AJ

I respectfully disagree

I appreciate all that you do for this forum and what you do for all the tree climbers here. This forum wouldnt be what it is without you. Okay, enough sucking-up... gotta a $5 spot I could borrow Moss? just kidding

Leslie, this setup is wonderful when used with a Pantin. I shouldnt assume everyone has one. I tried it without a Pantin for awhile but the gear lust got the best of me. Once I got the Pantin, I realized that it was silly that I spent so much time with an XT setup without one.

A word of caution. The Pantin led to the handled ascender which led me to learn SRT which led me to a rope wrench. I now recant my opinion that you should switch to the XT. It will only bring you hours of enjoyment learning a new technique and more importantly, it will empty out your wallet. Beware the gear lust. I believe there is a 12 step program to help climbers through an episode of gear lust. I am personally still in the denial stage.

BKS

Hey Moss - thanks for all the tips! I think I'm really liking this hitch. Today I did a brief climb (just going up and down several times) using PI and 8mm Beeline for the hitch. The 8mm feels a lot different than the 10mm piece I used at work - much softer and less round but that could be because . . .

Sidebar: I just got this hank of 8mm Beeline yesterday and when I pulled it out of the box the inner part of the rope was hanging out about an inch from the outer cover on both ends. Being that my brain often reacts like a 12 year olds as opposed to the 50 couple years it actually is I had to pull it - had to! Whoah! A whole bunch came out, but the other end didn't move - so. . .I had to pull that end to see if it would go back - didn't, I just ended up with a bunch out both ends. Anyway I freaked a little thinking I had ruined my nice piece of Beeline but I milked the outer cover and got it all back in. I then cut and epoxied the ends before I could do any more damage!

Back to the climb: I noticed (once I got off the ground) that it really did take less energy to climb this way - I thought that was the case the other day, but I wasn't yet convinced. The only thing I noticed was that because I'm holding myself up longer with my arms (while I'm doing the foot wiggle thing to get the rope to slide) my hands were a bit more sore from gripping the rope than they usually are after I climb (arthritis). This, I'm sure, would be diminished or completely eradicated by incorporating a Pantin into the mix - don't you think? Thus, investing in a Pantin would be therapeutic and a therefore a legitimate expense.

I'm still deciding where I like to clip in on my saddle. I used my basic saddle today and tried clipping my hitch in on the metal legstrap D. That seems to be the least cumbersome way to do it although it seems a little wierd having the ropes line up one behind the other as opposed to side by side on the Delta. When I attach the hitch to the Delta the pulley always seems to be in the way of my hand or the other biner. I can't get over how well this hitch grabs and how easily it lets loose - and I just like how it looks.

BKS - Yea, I need that 12 step program already! I've only climbed SRT once and though I really wasn't thrilled with it I'd like to do it again and have that option available to me. I'm leaning towards a Yo-Yo system but that's a whole new thread I need to start. That, of course, would require buying a bunch more cool stuff! When I get a new catalog or go on one of the arborists websites I just seem to find myself somehow holding my credit card, with no recollection of retrieving it from my wallet. This could become a serious problem

-Leslie

Whatever you do...don't go to Ron for counseling!

This is all good, I can speak directly from experience on the hand grip/pain problem. My first couple of years climbing I was such a weenie, I would only climb on the trunk, being out in the air away from the tree on longish ascents scared the !#$ ^ out of me. As a result I was ascending into trees primarily body-thrust technique on a Blake's. Great workout and it fit the macho tree climber model nicely. Then I started developing severe pain in the tendons connecting to my inside elbow in each arm. Disabling pain prevented me from climbing. I figured out that my bare-hand grip on the rope was overloading the elbow tendons. I started wearing Atlas grippy gloves, I was able to relax my hands much more when I grabbed the rope. I also reduced my dependence on body-thrust technique. Within three months the tendons were completely healed and I was getting happier climbing away from the trunk. Many climbers hate gloves, there's a variety of reasons. For me it's a simple benefit of allowing a sure grip on the rope without over-gripping. I'm susceptible to tendon and joint injury, have mild finger arthritis, the latex palmed grippy gloves make it possible for me to climb regularly. I won't hurt myself if I climb without gloves but if I climb all the time without gloves it will eventually cause finger and elbow pain.

The Pantin will take pressure off your hands and arms, Many times when I'm pausing on the rope during the climb I'm just standing on the Pantin, not much weight on my arms.
-AJ

A little mentioned benefit of having the two legs of the rope line up in front of you is that it doesn't matter which leg of the rope you put your hitch on when you set up to climb, it's all the same, in front of you. Many Blake's climber's like the hitch on the right side so if they accidentally install the rope with the "short" leg on the left they get bent out of shape and then pull the slack all the way though to the left side so they can tie their Blake's on the right side. Some Blake's climber's are fairly ambidextrous and don't mind tying the hitch "backwards" on the left side of their delta. Anyway after a few more climbs the rope lined up front to back will seem normal.
-AJ

Yup, when I first started climbing I did that, it really messed with my brain having it on the "wrong" side- now it doesn't matter to me which side it's on.

The Atlas Fit gloves are the best invention since peanut butter

-Leslie